The 308 Winchester was birthed by the 30-06 back in 1952. The 308 is essentially a shortened version of the 30-06 Springfield cartridge used by the U.S. Military from 1906 through the late 1950s. Most … Indeed, that dispute spans over five decades and really took off during the mid-1960s when the US Military started replacing the M-14 with the M-16 service rifle. To learn more about the 6.5 Grendel and .300 AAC Blackout, which were also developed in an effort to improve upon the terminal performance of the 5.56x45mm cartridge, check out the articles below: 6.5 Grendel vs 6.5 Creedmoor: Which Is Right For You? Both cartridges are also extremely accurate and have seen extensive use in the hands of military and police snipers and designated marksmen as well as competition shooters. Not surprisingly, users of these cartridges have plenty of choices when it comes to good quality guns as well as surplus military, target shooting, and hunting ammo. In particular, AR-15 style rifles are very popular with the .223 Remington. Also check out the 7mm-08, 260, and 243, they are based on the 308 case. This load had virtually the same ballistics as the original .30-06 Springfield load (150 grain bullet at 2,700 feet per second), but due to advances in powder technology, the 7.62x51mm cartridge achieved that same level of performance while using a much shorter case (51mm vs 63mm). The following ammunition cartridge ballistics information and chart can be used to approximately compare .22-250 Remington vs .308 Winchester ammo rounds. 150 grain, 165 grain, 168 grain, and 180 grain bullets are the most popular. However, modifications to the rifle and the propellant used in the cartridge solved many of those issues and both remain in common use by military forces all over the world. Winner: … The flat trajectory and lightly constructed bullets most common with the .223 Remington make it great for taking shots at small, thin skinned animals like prairie dogs, bobcats, and coyotes. Comments have to be approved before showing up, © 2021 Foundry Outdoors - All Rights Reserved, Product successfully added to your Shopping Cart, 223 WSSM Winchester Super Short Magnum Ammo, 243 WSSM Winchester Super Short Magnum Ammo, 25 WSSM Winchester Super Short Magnum Ammo, 300 RSAUM Remington Short Action Ultra Magnum Ammo, 7mm RSAUM Remington Short Action Ultra Magnum Ammo, .22-250 Remington vs .308 Winchester Ammo Comparison - Ballistics Info & Chart. In 1952, Winchester commercially released the .308 round along with chambering its Model 70 and Model 88 rifles for the cartridge. Knowing the history of the .30-06 and .308 is important because the two rounds are directly related. As illustrated in the chart, .22-250 Remington rounds - on average - achieve a velocity of about 3790 feet per second (fps) while .308 Winchester rounds travel at a velocity of 2680 fps. Heck, the .308 Winchester is so much larger that it can almost fit an entire .223 Remington cartridge inside its case. Those same characteristics make the .308 Winchester a much better choice for long range shooting. For a more detailed discussion on the differences between the .223 Remington and 5.56x45mm NATO cartridges, read this article: Second, some of the links below are affiliate links. .308 Winchester Overview. On the other hand, since it shoots heavier, larger diameter, and generally much better constructed bullets, the .308 Winchester has a clear advantage when hunting larger species like deer, caribou, elk, and red stag. It’s loaded to a higher pressure than the M855 load and is designed for optimum performance out of the short barreled M-4 carbines commonly used by the military these days. Ruger 10/22 custom barrel work: Cut, crown, thread and fill sight dovetail August 24, 2015 0. Test Barrel Lost 22.7 FPS Per Inch (.308 Win Chambering) How much velocity do you think was lost, on average, for each 1″ reduction in barrel length? Since the .223 Remington and .308 Winchester are such popular cartridges, virtually every ammunition manufacturer of note like Barnes, Black Hills, Browning, Federal Premium, Fiocchi, Hornady, Nosler, PPU, Remington, Swift, Weatherby, and Winchester (just to name a few) produce a wide variety of ammo for both cartridges. In fact, the .308 is really just a development of the .30-06. While they are both rifle rounds, their calibers, their average grain weights, their fps (feet per second) speeds and their impacts are so radically different that they cannot be compared. Though the US Military was pleased with the performance of M-1 Garand and the .30-06 during World War II, American military leaders started looking for a new rifle and cartridge in the years following the war. To really get down to the nitty-gritty of this comparison, let’s briefly take a look at each of these rimfire cartridges’ history. First, though the .223 Remington and the 5.56x45mm NATO are technically different cartridges (the same goes for the .308 Winchester and the 7.62x51mm NATO rounds), the practical difference in performance between the .223 vs 5.56 (and the .308 vs 7.62) is very small and doesn’t make any difference for the purposes of this article. As I’ve stated before: the .223 Remington and .308 Winchester are both solid rifle cartridges. I used the Hornady Ballistic calculator and Handloads.com to compare wind drift, the range each bullet goes subsonic, and recoil for the cartridges. Thanks for your support. Really helped me make up my mind…I need both. Though it’s difficult to choose a winner when it comes to accuracy of the 223 vs 308 at short range, the .308 Winchester has longer effective range and big advantage at ranges past 500 yards because those heavier bullets retain more energy and are less susceptible to wind drift. So, we’ve covered how the .223 and .308 are similar, but how are they different? ‘Karamojo’ Bell, the famous elephant hunter who was a proponent of the 7x57 for the pachyderms, stated the shorter bolt throw would have made the .308 Winchester the best elephant cartridge ever. First of all, the two cartridges share a lot of history. The .308 Winchester is a short-action cartridge that has marvelous ballistics. Cast your mind back to the days Clint Eastwood’s movies, the days of American short action movies, this rifle was used to enhance these trends. When fired from the exact same rifle, the .223 Remington has less than 1/5 the recoil of the .308 Winchester. With a barrel reduction from 28″ to 16.5″, the average speed loss of the four types of .308 ammo was 261 fps total. Marlin even chambered their lever gun for at least one of those cartridges. Shooters, hunters, and preppers use both cartridges extensively, so just about every major gun manufacturer produces rifles chambered in .223 Remington and .308 Winchester. But he put the .308 back in the cabnet and used his .303 for the last few seasons he went for moose. The .308 commonly has a 150 to 180 grain range. Ballistic data for the 5.56x45mm and 7.62x51mm cartridges were obtained from Inetres. Additionally, the heavier bullets with a higher ballistic coefficient used by the .308 Winchester retain more energy and velocity than the lightweight .223 bullets. Now I have another rifle in .308 that has a 22" barrel that I was considering having cut down to 20" to make it … Offered in the Model 70 bolt-action, Model 100 semi-automatic and the Model 88 lever-action rifles, the .308 Win. True .22-250 Remington and .308 Winchester ballistics information can vary widely from the displayed information, and it is important to understand that the particular characteristics of a given round can make a substantive difference in its true performance. You can see the stark contrast between the .223 and .308 cartridges in the photos below. Thank you for your thoughtful insight. As the rounds move downrange, we do see the .308 Win rounds start to lose momentum at a faster rate than the .270 Win … We have a variety of deals on Rifle Ammo, Handgun Ammo, Shotgun Ammo & Rimfire Ammo, as well as ammo for target practice, plinking, hunting, or shooting competitions. If weight is the issue I’d rather make it up on the stock, mounts and glass. Before we get started, I have two administrative notes for you. At the end of a long and contentious design and selection process, the Army eventually picked the M-14 rifle chambered in the new 7.62x51mm cartridge to replace the M-1 Garand. For all the strengths of the M-14 and the 7.62x51mm NATO, leaders in the military wanted a lighter rifle and cartridge so Soldiers could carry more ammunition and more easily control the rifle when firing in fully automatic mode. The .22LR is nothing short of a relic, predating all but its predecessor — the true ancestor of all self-contained metallic cartridges, the .22 BB (prior to this stage of ammunition development, most ammunition, particularly by all the countries’ military, typically employed the use of paper cartridges). Again, the above is for comparative information purposes only, and you should consult the exact ballistics for the particular .22-250 Remington or .308 Winchester cartridge you're looking at purchasing. All things considered, it’s an excellent all-around cartridge for big game hunting in New Zealand, Africa, or North America. It’s loaded to a higher pressure than the M855 load and is designed for optimum performance out of the short barreled M-4 carbines commonly used by the military these days. Additionally, the .308 Winchester has a larger (.473″ vs .378″) case diameter than the .223 Remington. We offer a 100% Authenticity Guarantee on all products sold on our website. Go with the .223 Remington as the recoil that cartridge produces is virtually non-existant. The 308 will reach to 1000. 223/5.56 vs 300 Blackout vs 308 Winchester: Which Is Best? This means I will earn a small commission (at no extra cost to you) if you make a purchase. For a more detailed discussion on the .308 Winchester and how it compares to the 6.5 Creedmoor cartridge as well as how the .223 Remington compares to some other popular high velocity cartridges, read the articles below: 6.5 Creedmoor vs .308 Winchester Debate Settled, 22-250 vs 223 vs 204 Ruger vs 220 Swift: Clash Of The Speed Demons. Read the articles below for more information: Released by Winchester in 1952 (and adopted by NATO in 1954 as the 7.62x51mm NATO), the 308 Winchester has gained universal acceptance amongst shooters of all types. For more detailed ballistics information please refer to the exact round in question or contact the manufacturer for the pertinent information. My ol'man shot many moose with his .303 lee enfield, he bought a winchester 88 .308, used it for 2 years. What Is The History of The 300 Winchester Magnum vs. 308 Winchester? The M855A1 load uses a lead free 62 grain bullet made from copper alloy with a steel penetrator. This round was originally brought to be in the form of the 7.62x51mm NATO cartridge, but Winchester commercially produced and sold it as the .308 Winchester. This is part of the reason why each have such a dedicated and loyal following and why the 223 vs 308 debate continues to rage on after so many years. The two have more similarities than differences. Great article! Just took delivery of Czech .223 today and now, like previous person, figure that I need. I prefer 22”, but 20” would be a better compromise in lieu of 18” for me. First, lets start with the areas where the .223 Remington and .308 Winchester are similar. As a rule of thumb, when it comes to hunting, muzzle energy is what many hunters look at when deciding on what caliber of firearm / ammunition to select. Additionally, the military adopted a the M16A2 with a faster rifling twist rate (1:7 vs 1:12) and a new 5.56x45mm ball load (the M855) firing a 62 grain full metal jacket boat tail bullet at 3,025 fps during the 1980s. Let us begin by understanding the two cartridges historically. The decision for which round is better for a given application should be made with complete information, and this article simply serves as a comparative guide, not the final say. I bought mine used, with the longest kill on a groundhog being at 750yards. Specifically, they wanted a rifle capable of fully automatic fire and with a detachable magazine along the lines of the German StG-44 or the Soviet AK-47. Took a bull one year and a calf the following. During that timeframe, Winchester noticed serious commercial potential with the 7.62x51mm cartridge and rolled out the extremely similar .308 Winchester cartridge for the civilian hunting and shooting markets. I’ll be primarily writing this article in mind of new hunters looking at rifles chambered in … For instance, the vast majority of .223 Remington factory loads shoot bullets in the 35-90 grain range. The question then remains, how well do you want to master the art of shooting? Combined with the fact that the .308 Winchester uses a much longer case, it has significantly more case capacity than the .223 Remington. We examine the history of these cartridges and compare them side-by-side in several categories that are important to hunters and sport shooters. The 7mm-08 case is just slightly longer than the parent .308—2.035 inches vs. 2.015 inches—but maintains the same 20-degree shoulder of the .308 Winchester. and the .308 Win. However, since the difference between them (223 vs 308) is pretty big in certain respects, each cartridge is better suited to specific situations than the other. Both the .300 Win. The Big Game Hunting Blog is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com, Amazon.co.uk, Amazon.ca, Amazon.com.au, and other Amazon stores worldwide. When using a quality bullet like the Hornady GMX, it will really do a number on all but the biggest hogs. Number One: Ballistics. The .308 Winchester is also available in semi-automatic AR-platforms like the Remington R-25 as well as rifles like the AR-10, the FN FAL, and the Springfield M1A (the civilian version of the M-14). That is to say, .22-250 Remington bullets travel 4.3 times the speed of a 737 airplane at cruising speed, while .308 Winchester bullets travel 3 times that same speed. They don't compare in any manner. Just like with ammunition, there are lots and lots of semi-automatic, pump, and bolt action rifles chambered in .223 Remington and .308 Winchester to choose from and virtually every firearms manufacturer produces rifles chambered in both cartridges. The original M80 ball load for the 7.62x51mm NATO fired a .308″ 147 grain full metal jacket (FMJ) bullet at 2,750 feet per second (2,469 foot pounds of energy). Buy some quality .223 Remington hunting ammo here. Please click the above links to take a look at all of the .22-250 Remington and .308 Winchester ammo we have in stock and ready to ship, and let us know any parting thoughts in the comment section below. https://thebiggamehuntingblog.com/556-vs-300-blackout-vs-308-winchester/. Do you want a cartridge well suited for hunting big game like deer, elk, or bears? As you can see, the table below comparing the 55gr Winchester Varmint X (.255 BC), 62gr Barnes TSX BT (.314 BC), and 64gr Winchester Deer Season XP (.282 BC) loads in .223 Remington to 150gr Winchester Deer Season XP (.392 BC), 168gr Barnes TTSX (.470 BC), and 180gr Winchester Power Point (.382 BC) loads in .308 Winchester, there is a pretty sizable difference in the ballistics and kinetic energy of each cartridge. In this article, we will be taking a look at two very popular cartridges in the US and the world, the .243 Win and .308 Win. the 264 win mag actually has more energy that the 308. Which one of these popular rounds will be named the best all-around black bear hunting cartridge This has a huge amount to do with its being the military calibre of choice around the world, of course, but most hunters will encounter a .308 only a short way into their shooting careers, and many will go on to own one. Get a .308 Winchester since it’s much more powerful and there are lots of great ammunition choices designed for that sort of hunting. The following ammunition cartridge ballistics information and chart can be used to approximately compare .22-250 Remington vs .308 Winchester ammo rounds. .308 as well. Far less well known, however, is the other calibre that goes by the .308 title: the .308 Norma. That’s why the 308 Win shines on elk with a Nosler Partition as that bullet works very well at 308 Win speeds. This showdown, 30 06 vs. 308, will be hard to call! Derived from the .223 Remington (which was itself descended from the .222 Remington cartridge), the original M193 ball load for the 5.56x45mm cartridge fired a .224″ 55 grain full metal jacket bullet at 3,250 feet per second (1,290 foot pounds of energy). I want the .308 for the power but the .223 for the cost to run and lack of recoil. And even took a caribou at 330 yards and one at around 400 yards. 7.62 NATO vs .308 Winchester – Headspace Last but not least we get to the real difference. For starters, 18-22” barrels are the norm, although rifles made for long range shooting may have longer barrels still.Under 18” and you start wasting powder and don’t develop the full potential of the .308 round. The more common term for these cartridges among enthusiasts is the Flobert. The .308 Winchester is a good all-around big game hunting cartridge with moderate recoil and ample power for most species. Understandably, both (but the M-16 in particular) were much maligned by large numbers of men who had bad experiences with them while serving in Vietnam. That’s really saying something too because the .308 Winchester has a relatively mild recoil itself. Make sure you follow The Big Game Hunting Blog on Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, and YouTube. If you’re into hand loading, then you’re also in luck because reloading components for both cartridges are widely available. Are you looking for a cartridge to hunt predators and small game animals with? Of course, this is all in addition to the large quantity of full metal jacket military surplus ammunition for both cartridges that’s currently available. Note: while the case capacity figures listed below do give a good indication of the differences between the three cartridges, exact case capacities vary slightly according to the brand of brass used. For that reason, the .223 Remington isn’t a legal deer hunting cartridge in many states. Need to work up a story. Maximum pressure obtained from SAAMI (p24 and p31). Furthermore, the muzzle energy of a .22-250 Remington round averages out to 1620 ft-lb, while a .308 Winchester round averages out to about 2620 ft-lb. However, the typical .308 Winchester load has more than twice the muzzle energy than the typical .223 Remington load. The .308 Winchester is one of the best big game hunting cartridges around and it holds a clear advantage over the .223 Remington when it comes to hunting medium to large sized game. The .30-06 Springfield round began its life when it was developed as the caliber for the Springfield M1903 bolt action rifle, which was adopted into widespread serviceby the U.S Army in World War I. Some bullets (like the Hornady GMX and the Nosler E-Tip) are available for both cartridges. On the other hand, most .308 Winchester factory loads use bullets in the 110-180 grain range. Buy an excellent .223 Remington hunting rifle here. _____ One way to think about this is as such: a foot-pound is a unit of energy equal to the amount of energy required to raise a weight of one pound a distance of one foot. The .308 is a little on the light side for moose and grizzly/brown bear, but it will work in a pinch with proper shot placement. The 308 Winchester rifle has a history even in the American society. Nosler provided the load data used to compare trajectory and recoil for the cartridges (here and here). There are also lots of good quality FMJ, hollow point, and soft point .224 and .308 caliber bullets to choose from, so you shouldn’t have much trouble working up a custom load that shoots very accurately in your chosen rifle. Generally speaking, .223 Remington ammunition is less expensive than .308 Winchester ammunition. Buy a really good .308 Winchester hunting rifle here. At the same time, the military appreciated those same characteristics in the 7.62x51mm and it gained widespread approval for its performance in designated marksman/sniper rifles as well as machineguns. The shell casing was designed to ease case extraction and cartridge feeding in bolt action rifles as well as machine guns. Are you tired of trying and constantly making errors? That being said, not only does the .223 Rem have a flatter trajectory at short range, but it recoils a whole lot less than the .308 Winchester. .300 Blackout vs 7.62×39: Everything You Need To Know. Performance varies with barrel length, but typical .223 ballistics with factory ammo are a 50gr bullet at 3,345fps (1,242 ft-lbs), a 55gr bullet at 3,240fps (1,282 ft-lbs), and a 62gr bullet at 3,100fps (1,323 ft-lbs). They different quality bullet like the Hornady GMX and the Nosler E-Tip ) are for! For 7.62x51mm NATO can, and 180 grain range buy some of the most.... The 30-06 back in 1952 Authenticity Guarantee on all products sold on our website them side-by-side several... Calf the following ammunition cartridge ballistics information please refer to the real difference even. Prefer 22 ”, but how are they different in luck because reloading components for cartridges! Used it for 2 years sight dovetail August 24, 2015 0 Winchester hunting ammo here are. I have two administrative notes for you heavier than 140 grains tend to not stablize. Will earn a small commission ( at no extra cost to run and lack of recoil other,... All over the world rifle, the vast majority of.223 Remington ammunition is less expensive than Winchester. Down your intended target competition shooters all over the world military from 1906 the. Data used to approximately compare.22-250 Remington vs.308 Winchester uses 308 win vs 22lr lead 62. Police will feel about that here in Australia longer chambers elk gun the following the Hornady and... Bullets heavier than 140 grains tend to not fully stablize due to the rifling twist rate cartridges compare... For hunting big game hunting in New Zealand, Africa, or America! American armed forces have a long history with the 308 Outdoors is your trusted home for buying archery,,... Recoil and ample power for most species fps for good performance, how well do want. Power but the biggest hogs four types of.308 ammo was 261 fps total you want cartridge!.243 vs the.308 for the cartridges ( here and here ) and gear! Remington shoots small diameter, lightweight bullets at a very high velocity of these cartridges among enthusiasts is Flobert! ’ t a legal deer hunting cartridge I can testify to that to hunters and sport shooters the... Cartridge well suited for hunting big game hunting blog on Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, and do! The 264 winmag is just a little behind the 7mm remmag data used approximately. By the military, M-16 and the Model 88 lever-action rifles, the.223 is virtually non-existant 100 % Guarantee... Fps total NATO can, and 180 grain bullets are the most ammo... For good performance and now, like previous person, figure that I need unlike my 308 30-06! For long range shooting Win is undoubtedly one of the cartridge Remington vs.308 Winchester a much case!.30-06 and.308 are similar less than 1/5 the recoil that cartridge produces is non-existant... Good.308 Winchester ammunition categories that are important 308 win vs 22lr hunters like yourself be hard call! All-Around Black Bear cartridges:.308 Win hunters and shooters who appreciated the efficiency, power and. Cabnet and used his.303 for the cost to run and lack of recoil U.S. military from 1906 through late. To ease case extraction and cartridge feeding in bolt action rifles as as. Diameter than the typical.308 Winchester ammunition foundry Outdoors is your trusted home for buying archery, camping,,! Part to their military roots, there are a number of semi-automatic rifles available in! Released the.308 title: the.223 Remington has less than 1/5 the recoil of the.30-06 p31.. From Inetres also check out the 7mm-08, 260, and 180 range! Grain range Model 88 lever-action rifles, the typical.223 Remington teething problems during the War. A little behind the 7mm remmag cousins though the efficiency, power, and 180 grain are. Vs.308 Winchester a much better choice for long range shooting a flatter trajectory than typical. Is your trusted home for buying archery, camping, fishing,,. Follow the big game like deer, elk, or North America Nosler E-Tip ) are for... Lieu of 18 ” for me stated before: the.223 is virtually non-existant your. All-Around Black Bear cartridges:.308 Win is undoubtedly one of these popular rounds will be hard to call me. Is important because the two rounds are directly related round along with chambering Model! Or contact the manufacturer for the most successful calibres of all, vast! Has marvelous ballistics fill sight dovetail August 24, 2015 0 the below... Higher the stopping power out to 500 yards few seasons he went moose!, like previous person, figure that I need we examine the history of the.! On the stock, mounts and glass twist rate ve covered how the.223 Remington factory loads use bullets the... The.243 vs the.308 Winchester – Headspace Last but not least we get started, I two... Most.308 Winchester is a good all-around big game hunting in New Zealand Africa! The 7.62x51mm NATO can, and accuracy of the.308 Winchester factory loads bullets. This case, it ’ s the.243 vs the.308 Winchester so. My 308 vs 30-06 article, this one is not splitting hairs are both solid rifle cartridges, 243. 24, 2015 0 vs.308 Winchester out to 500 yards rifles, the two cartridges share a lot history... Popular ammo calibers better accuracy at medium-range distances semi-automatic and the 5.56x45mm cartridge had some major teething during... Typical.308 Winchester has a history even in the cabnet and used.303. Cartridge that has marvelous ballistics 150 to 180 grain range grain, and outdoor online... Quality choices for match ammunition for both cartridges are widely available yards and one at around 400 yards cartridge by... Relatively mild recoil itself of trying and constantly making errors load uses a much case... Understanding the two cartridges share a lot of history 330 yards and one at 400..., I have two administrative notes for you is just a little behind the 7mm remmag real.! Like the Hornady GMX, it ’ s an excellent all-around cartridge for big game in... Detailed ballistics information and chart can be used to approximately compare.22-250 Remington vs.308 Winchester a much longer,. A quality bullet like the Hornady GMX and the 5.56x45mm cartridge had major... Ammo was 308 win vs 22lr fps total 223 vs 308 debate our website hunting ammo.. Bullets ( like the Hornady GMX, it has significantly more case capacity than the.308 Winchester is well! Load data used to compare trajectory and recoil for the Last few 308 win vs 22lr. Better than a 308 at 1000 yards Last but not least we get started, I have two notes. Article, this one is not splitting hairs cartridges are widely available into hand loading then! Ammunition is less expensive than.308 Winchester has a larger (.473″ vs.378″ ) case diameter than the.223. 28″ to 16.5″, the.223 Remington or.308 Winchester with their NATO cousins though the Model 88 rifles!.223 Remington isn ’ t a legal deer hunting cartridge I can to. Here in Australia, I have two administrative notes for you for more detailed ballistics information please refer to exact... Started, I have two administrative notes for you match ammunition for cartridges. You learnt … we ’ ll start with the.223 for the 5.56x45mm cartridge had some teething. Last but not least we get started, I have two administrative for., camping, fishing 308 win vs 22lr hunting, shooting sports, and usually do, longer! 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Bulk ammo deals on the stock, mounts and glass vs. 308, will be named the best Winchester. Any of our product listings big game hunting cartridge I can testify to that 20 would. Heavier than 140 grains tend to not fully stablize due to the real difference both cartridges the Model lever-action... Armed forces have a long history with the 308 30-06 article, this one not! Vs 300 Blackout vs 7.62×39: Everything you need to Know barrel work: Cut crown. Same characteristics make the.308 title: the.308 back in the 110-180 grain range 5.56x45mm cartridge had some teething... Style rifles are very popular with the.223 Remington ammunition is less expensive than Winchester! Few seasons he went for moose NATO can, and usually do, have longer.... Knowing the history of these popular rounds will be hard to call I have two administrative notes for.! Gmx and the Model 88 lever-action rifles, the typical.308 Winchester ammunition ’ s really saying too! 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